Realistic Economics

I say
that there has never been a true capitalist state
there has never been a true socialist state
I'm talking about private ownership vs. public ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange

an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange,
characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit
in competitive conditions
VS.
an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state.
It is characterized by production for use rather than profit,
by equality of individual wealth,
by the absence of competitive economic activity,
and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels

When has ownership ever been completely private or public?
The constitution gives congress the power to regulate commerce.
The government (federal and state) has owned a great percentage of land since our independence.

I could ask what percentage of a country's GDP is derived from public or private ownership?
I'll say there has never been true capitalism in America
because the state has always been a tool of the wealthy.
The wealthy elite would never have gotten this much power without the state.
If the state was not involved at all, not benefiting or restricting, then things would look a lot different. I don't know how it would look, but it would be different.
The job of the american government is to maximize profits while suppressing insurrection.
Concessions were made for workers and consumers to suppress an uprising
private profits, public debt.

There are capitalistic welfare states.
I make a distinction between socialism and welfare states
one where everyone's basic needs are met by the state
shelter, food, education, healthcare...
but businesses are owned privately

So when someone says they want a free market or they want socialism, that really doesn't mean shit to me
I want to know what their society would look like. Details.
who owns what, who gives what, what you can and cannot do? what is everyone's role?

People say 'don't blame capitalism, blame crony capitalism'

Whatever they think capitalism is, doesn't exist.
Will never exist as long as there are a few (we call them elected officials) who make, enforce, and interpret the law.
Crony capitalism is the true capitalism
It's the corruption inherent in the system

*Updated from Oct 2011